BM: Did you call yourselves the Shangri-Las right from the start?

MW: You know, we didn't have a name initially. We were going to make a record and we said, "We better get a name - fast!" We were driving on Long Island and saw a restaurant called the Shangri-La. That's where we got the name.

Above: First Red Bird promo pix, 1964

BM: Were you the lead singer from the start?

MW: Actually, my sister Liz was at first. On the first demo, on Wishing Well, that's Liz. She actually sang both sides (Hate To Say I Told You So). She also sang Shout. Wishing Well was actually our demo and they played around with it and released it.

BM: Spokane Records. That was with Artie Ripp, right?

MW: Right. Kama Sutra Productions. That was very short lived.

BM: I love that first record you made, Simon Says with the Lonnie Mack type guitar and the Bo Diddley beat.

MW: Liz was the lead singer on that one, too.

Left and right: Mary backstage; Center: let there be boots!

BM: You were singing at hops and dances, who was booking you when you started?

MW: Before we went to Red Bird, we had a manager named Tony Michaels.

BM: Now you met George "Shadow" Morton through Bob Lewis, Babalu from WABC.

MW: Right. Bob Lewis. That's where I met George, at Bob's apartment. Tony Michaels took us over there so he could hear us sing and get his opinion. George was there, I don't know why he was there, but that's how we met him. True story.

ML: In a nutshell, can you describe Shadow for us?

MW: George is one of the most colorful, unique people I've ever met in my life. Extremely talented. He used to be very difficult to get into a room at a scheduled time, but a brilliant man.

BM: An amazing producer.

MW: I was with George at some arena show when he met Phil Spector.

BM: Wow! What was that like?

MW: Oil and water! That's all I can say. I was not happy to be there.

BM: There's a 45 by a group called the Beatle-Ettes produced by a George Morton...

MW: I know what you're going to ask and that's not the Shangri-Las. They say a group called the Bon Bons is the Shangri-Las. That thing is everywhere. I see it all the time and go, "Who the hell are they?"

BM: It doesn't make any sense because you and Shadow pretty much started together.

MW: Right. You got me! I have no idea where people get this stuff.

Left to right: Headlining over Iggy Pop's teen combo, the Iguanas, Detroit; punk rock scrawl '66 -- JD identity in the works; The Shangri-Las with UPBEAT TV host Don Webster, Cleveland

BM: Did Shadow make any plans for you right away?

MW: No, not until we did the demo for Remember. Billy Joel played piano on it. George said he had a phone conversation with Billy years later and Billy said, "You owe me $67. You never paid me my scale!"

BM: Was the demo really over seven minutes long like legend has it?

MW: I don't think it was quite that long, it's been exaggerated over the years, but it was longer than the actual record. At the time, it was unheard of to extend a record to more than a few minutes. That seemed abnormal to me.

BM: Still, it seems that it would be weird for Shadow to go that far out on a limb his first time out, with so much at stake.

MW: It would.

BM: The whole reason for making the demo was that George had told Jeff Barry at Red Bird that he was a songwriter even though he'd never written anything before. In your words what transpired to bring all of this about? What exactly was the story?

MW: As far as Remember (Walking In The Sand) goes, I think you should ask George Morton. My involvement with the song was in the studio.

ML: It's a complex song.

MW: Initially it was done instrumentally and kind of evolved. I like that song a lot.

Above: You mean in good-bad standing-- Red Bird on a roll

BM: And you did that at Mirasound in Manhattan?

MW: We did most of them there. We did use Ultra-Sonic sometimes. We did most of our demos there.

BM: My Boy Scout troop went to Ultra-Sonic in 1965 to see a real recording studio. I was really into it until the engineer goes, "You boys should have been here last night. The Shangri-Las were here." That's really not the kind of thing to tell a room full of teenage boys if you want them to keep paying attention.

MW: That wasn't nice. It could have been fun!

BM: Now you tell me! The Shangri-Las first hit at the start of the British Invasion. That's a mighty tough uphill battle.

MW: Absolutely. Look at the Beach Boys.

Above: "Well, I gotta look up!" The Shangri-Las shake up SHINDIG!

ML: When Remember hit, you started playing right away...

MW: Right away, yes. The Brooklyn Fox Theatre. I was traveling all the time. When I wasn't doing that I was in the studio. When I wasn't doing that I was rehearsing.

ML: Were you still in high school?

MW: I missed out on doing any real high school stuff. I went to professional school where you could leave if you had to tour. It was necessary. When you do television shows when you're a kid, they put a tutor backstage in the corner with a little book. It's the law. Kinda strange. Paul Jabara was my closest friend there. He wrote Last Dance for Donna Summer. Paul had the greatest sense of humor. I wish he was still around. I miss him to this day. I'd tag along to auditions with him. Once he stood on stage, pulled out his sheet music for the piano player -- about ten feet long -- and broke into I Enjoy Being A Girl. I sat in the back of the theatre and was laughing so hard I was crying.